The man who runs rugby's best domestic league is sitting in his plush, open-plan Paris office and has a blunt message for his struggling English counterparts.
“What undermines the English game is that the economic product was given priority over the sport,” said Rene Bouscatel, chairman of the French TOP14.
“In France we prioritized the sport and built our product and our competition. Due to its success, we generated an economic benefit. Not the other way around.
'The English are kings of marketing! But if you want to sell, you need a good product. We built a product and it's our competition. We have had two consecutive European champions. Our competition is very attractive.'
It certainly is. Rugby is positively flourishing in France. Fabien Galthie's national team may have suffered a disappointing quarter-final exit from the home World Cup, but the sporting landscape in the country is vibrant.
French TOP14 team La Rochelle (above) have won the last two Champions Cup titles
The TOP14 is an extremely attractive competition for players, both from a competitive and financial perspective. It is so good that it has already attracted a host of English stars who have given up international rugby to cross the Channel.
National coach Steve Borthwick has seen Jack Willis, Jack Nowell, Sam Simmonds, Henry Arundell, David Ribbans and Joe Marchant all move into the TOP14. Kyle Sinckler and Lewis Ludlam will follow them.
Meanwhile, in England last season, the Premiership lost three teams to financial oblivion: Worcester, Wasps and London Irish. The contrast is enormous. The gap is yawning and widening.
“English clubs have experienced difficulties with the arrival of quite a few players in France,” Bouscatel continues.
'It's good news for the clubs that sign them, but I'm not sure it's good news for rugby in general. We have experienced both highs and lows.
'England were ahead of us at the start of professionalism, but now they face challenges. It is harmful to take advantage of these difficulties by allowing many English players to play in France. They bring a lot to the clubs but I don't think it's good for English rugby.
Jack Nowell is one of a number of England stars who have given up Test rugby to cross the Channel
'It's not good for us either. Competition is crucial. You need opposition teams that are at a similar level. I take no pleasure in the plight of English clubs.
'I probably shouldn't say this, but Bath is a good example. They would have built a stadium in the last 25 years. I've been there countless times and they show me the plans every time, but I haven't seen it. I always have to take my umbrella there because it rains a lot.
“I mean this in the nicest way possible because I'm a friend of Bruce Craig's, but they're dreamers out there.
'We will never rejoice in the troubles of others. Health in sports is precarious. We've been through the lows, but now we're in the highs.
'It's a real shame at the English clubs. The English were the only ones who had the same competition as us, but perhaps creating a better second tier would have been a good thing.
'If we lose a club from the TOP14 for financial reasons, there is immediately one ready to take its place. We have a wide spread of clubs on the rise. I love it. There's rugby everywhere.'
England boss Steve Borthwick has also seen Jack Willis and Joe Marchant move into the TOP14
Strict financial control rules and the number of French-qualified players who must be part of a team's matchday squad are other reasons for the country's rugby success.
France has 1,900 professional players in 30 clubs in the top two divisions. The TOP14 is in such rude health that it has rejected the offer of private equity investments.
La Rochelle have won the last two Champions Cup titles and are looking for a third success in a row as European action returns this weekend.
While the Premiership, Six Nations and United Rugby Championship have all sold major stakes in their organizations to CVC Capital Partners and New Zealand Rugby have done the same with Silver Lake, France is plowing ahead alone in the knowledge they don't need any outside help.
'I don't know any investment funds and I prefer not to talk to them. I would be too afraid that they would get 27 percent of the competition,” Bouscatel added.
“Our stadiums are full and our television audience is on track to be better than last year. We get seven to eight percent more revenue from each match than before the World Cup, and the television audience has increased by ten percent.
'The World Cup has improved us. The semi-finals of the TOP14 will be in Bordeaux next year. We sold out both games in four days. We sold 17,000 tickets for the final in one morning.'
France has 1,900 professional players in 30 clubs in the top two divisions
It is no surprise that Bouscatel, as the man at the head of a thriving organization, laughs and smiles throughout the interview. He points out that the TOP 14 salary cap – the amount each team can spend on its playing squad – is €10.7 million.
'How high is the English salary ceiling?' asks Bouscatel.
When he is told the answer is £5m – rising to £6.4m for the 2024-2025 season – a wide grin once again appears on the former Toulouse president's face.
'Yes, a fiver!' he says, sticking the boot into his Gallic rivals for the last time.
